Read this article:

Outgunned: Why California’s groundbreaking firearms law is failing
https://calmatters.org/justice/2021/07/california-gun-law-failing/

Then realize that in this massive backlog of seizures, two names were not among them: the perpetrators of the Dance Hall Mass Murder and the Mushroom Farms Mass Murder, both of whom had minor or zero criminal backgrounds. One had an ancient firearm violation.

So, how ya gonna so lower the number of guns in California that a mentally ill person bent on revenge can't get ahold of one? At the rate we are going, we'll be there in a few centuries. Better start militarizing those massive police forces if we're gonna catch up. New job in CA: Gun Confiscator!!! 1000's of positions open!

CG, understand your point and agree on your take on the broken windows theory. But in reality the two old men didn't commit any crimes that they would have been locked up for that would have prevented these mass shootings from happening. What did prevent some of the killings is Brandon Tsay, 26-year-old who wrestled the perpetrator and disarmed him and scared him off. I'm amazed the perp didn't return with his other gun that he killed himself with, but thankfully he didn't. Brandon said he'd never seen a gun before, but he was ready to pull the trigger.

I dunno, have incidents like this actually increased on a per capita basis over some period of time?

Seems to me that killings have been going on for a long time, and in many different ways/settings.

Shootings happen every day in places like Oakland. As long as you stay out of those areas, your chances of getting randomly shot are probably far lower than being injured or killed via a serious auto accident. And way, way lower than getting run-over by your own snow plow. (These type of incidents barely make the news, unless a celebrity is involved.)

Or, as David Letterman used to note, your chances of winning the lottery are the same - whether or not you play.

(And that's probably statistically accurate.)

Apparently, neither of these latest incidents was totally random. Perhaps this demonstrates the same type of underlying reason why employers immediately escort fired employees off the premises (while hoping that they don't come back, later).

Which probably adds to the anger, though no job (or more accurately - perceived treatment, therein) is worth getting that angry about. Apparently easier said than done, for some people.

Similar issues regarding school shootings. Those incidents don't just occur out-of-the-blue.

I do recall that Homer Simpson was disappointed about not getting a gun right away, stating something like, "But I'm angry, NOW"!

But as I previously mentioned to Alan M., I can't help but think that some are "disappointed" that these latest two mass shootings can't be blamed on some racist white male - and counted as "Asian hate crimes".

Thanks, DC, I'll check out the article. Clearly 'more laws on gun control' isn't the path.

As for RO: "But as I previously mentioned to Alan M., I can't help but think that some are "disappointed" that these latest two mass shootings can't be blamed on some racist white male - and counted as "Asian hate crimes".

See:

The Monterey Park Shooting Suspect Is an Asian Man. It Was Still Racial Violence.
https://jezebel.com/the-monterey-park-shooting-suspect-is-an-asian-man-it-1850018308

AND . . .

Schumer, Schiff, other liberals blame Monterey Park shooting on 'bigotry' before facts come out
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ny-sen-schumer-schiff-liberals-blame-monterey-shooting-bigotry-before-facts-come-out

I have long been horrified by violence against Asians and any groups where people are targeted by appearance as belonging to a group some idiot(s) hate. Over-applying that or jumping the gun does not help the cause. Just asking everyone to be real instead of applying their political cause to every tragedy (because they'all hurt the cause and look like simple-minded fools).

Does anyone happen to know what types of weapons that were used in the Monterey Park incident??
I think one of them was a Mac 10.

It is chambered in either .45 ACP or 9mm. A two-stage suppressor by Sionics was designed for the MAC-10, which not only abates the noise created, but makes it easier to control on full automatic (although it also makes the gun far less compact and concealable). The one he had was 9 mm.

This guy was a killer he's probably done this before.

Robert, thanks for joining in the discussion; I was wondering how outrageous I would have to write before riling up an actual conversation; I hope that turns into 'presentation of views' and people riffing off of each other, rather than 'you're wrong' and doxxing :-|

While I don't think there will be a repeal of the 2nd amendment (thought as you say, neither of us nor the next few generations will find out), I do think that a long-term possibility is large 'gun free zones'. Like all of urban Los Angeles, like New York City and all it's suburbs. I think there may need to be a recognition that guns and dense populations of people don't mix.

I traveled the country solo very young and got to meet people from all over. It was clear to me then that people in rural areas away from the coasts are shaped by their landscapes. And when it takes 30-45 for a police response, those people will never be without guns. It's not going to happen (not within centuries).

I'm also concerned about the imbalance if guns are taken away from people who obey the bans, but the criminal element still has guns. I'm not sure that's a great solution, unless we really can all-but-rid LA of Guns. And possibly Roses as well.

Well, one down. 400 million to go.

Re. guns in the hands of criminals. My understanding is that many guns used in crime are stolen. Additionally, and taking California as an example, many guns come in from out of state, where gun laws are not as strict. With so many guns in homes, it stands to reason that if a criminal wanted a gun he would only have to burglarize a fe homes to find guns. Which reminds me that requirements to keep guns (and ammo) safely stored should be in place. The six year old who shot his teacher (certainly an outlier) used a gun that reportedly had been stored with a trigger lock and on a top shelf of a closet.

WIKIPEDIA say:

The gun laws of New Zealand are contained in the Arms Act 1983 statute, which includes multiple amendments including those that were passed subsequent to the 1990 Aramoana massacre and the 2019 Christchurch mosque shootings.

Nearly 300,000 licensed firearm owners own and use New Zealand's estimated 1.5 million firearms. Gun licences are issued at the discretion of the police provided they consider the person to be of good standing and without criminal, psychiatric or drug issues; as well as meeting other conditions such as having suitable storage facilities. Several different categories of licence are permitted, with the most common, "A Category", permitting access to sporting configuration rifles and shotguns.

Tighter regulation was imposed immediately after the Aramoana massacre in 1990, the Scottish Dunblane and Australian Port Arthur massacres in 1996. After the Christchurch mosque shootings in 2019, legislation to restrict semi-automatic firearms and magazines with a capacity of more than 10 rounds, and provide an amnesty and buyback of such weapons was introduced and passed by the New Zealand parliament 119 to 1.

"Mass-shootings aren't something that I worry about all that much in regard to my personal safety, at least."

I take it you don't have school-age children nor are you a teacher. Must be nice to not worry.

I don't live life walking around worried by mass shootings either.
That would be one Hell of a way to live.

Exactly Ron, and I'll add that when I tread across a street I don't feel I'm risking my life either.

"Although very rarely the same individual does get struck by lightning twice :-|"

Ah, but did you cross G Street when cars were allowed and put your life peril?

Regarding getting "struck twice", all I know is that Jay Leno has had two-significant life-risking "problems" in regard to his own vehicles, recently.

I'd suggest that he at least not get a snow plow to add to his collection.

I did find his subsequent comment regarding becoming "Harrison Ford crashing planes" to be among his most-amusing comments, recently. (Something like that.)

"Isn't it about time to hold gun and ammo manufacturers liable for the deaths and injuries their products cause? We did it with cigarette manufacturers and pharmaceutical firms."

What's next, auto manufacturers when drivers use their product recklessly? Alcohol distributers when people can't handle their drinking? McDonalds when people overeat? I think we can all see where this might go.

RC, I understand the sentiment, but how do you see such a thing playing out, or doing good? With cigarettes, there isn't a constructive use. Some of the 400 million US guns have a purpose, even if you or I may not agree with that purpose. But, with illegal sales, printed guns, stolen guns - what would holding them accountable really change? And the perp in Idaho used knives for his mass murder.

While motivation may seem irrelevant to such seemingly meaningless crimes, what I have noted in most of these killing is the common threat of *supressed anger* on the part of the perpetrator. Perhaps why Ukraine is being invaded as well. Although these incidents seem to be increasing in frequency, the ability of a society to identify and locate individuals with these characteristics, and further to do something about them in the absence of a crime, may be beyond our capability. The factors which are increasing the frequency of mass murders is also nebulous and may be beyond our society's ability to change -- such as increased isolation brought on by the internet/social-media age, or as simple as not getting a slice of society by going to the store and seeing people, and instead having all of ones goods anonymously dropped at the doorstep.

One should work on releasing internalized anger. I have, for example: meditation and writing about how sh*tty the Davis Vanguard is in Al's Corner. Keeps me sane.

However, how does society find, locate, and diffuse anger in hidden, isolated individuals? Individuals who do not practice self-care or seek out professional help? Individuals whose brains may not longer be functioning properly?

All of this talk of getting rid of 400 million guns or suing the gun manufacturers would take time, the former would take generations, and that's once the 2nd amendment were repealed, also generations. This is happening now, and we need immediate relief. I don't see a path. That's why I'm saying we are doomed. I know it is nice to have hope, but I don't see this as being solvable. Hope, it often seems to me, is a mental illness in and of itself -- denying the reality of our lack of power to control such things, so instead grasping at straws. That two sides are completely polarized and fighting each other on their belief of a solution keeps us paralyzed. That only makes it worse. We just have to live with these shootings, and the many more to come. Realistically, there is little that will change, and little society can do. Or, carry a gun when you go to work, or out into the world for dancing or to any place that people gather.

"This is happening now, and we need immediate relief. I don't see a path. That's why I'm saying we are doomed. I know it is nice to have hope, but I don't see this as being solvable. Hope, it often seems to me, is a mental illness in and of itself -- denying the reality of our lack of power to control such things, so instead grasping at straws."

How about a slogan of "Hope and Change"? (Thereby allowing supporters to "insert" their own definitions?)

Though the "other" guy didn't set such lofty, undefined vision. He appealed to some baser and perhaps more "honest" instincts, for some. Though maybe some "hoped" to Make America Great, Again?

I take it that you don't think that most homeless folks are going to be "homed" anytime soon, or that everyone on the planet will soon be switching to carbon-free energy sources.

Just remembered this film clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Pa34orcwwA&t=3s

Pass laws that hold gun/ammo manufacturers liable for mass killings with their guns. We hold the manufacturers of oxycontin liable for mass death, why not gun manufacturers. And cigarette manufacturers liable for poisoning people.

And Keith, we regulate automobiles and hold manufacturers liable for falsifying data about emissions (which kill people) see VW. We regulate lots of industries, particularly if they manufacture stuff that hurts the public. For instance, the chemical industry. Why not gun manufacturers? They seem to operate with little impunity. We put Juelle out of the business of selling vaping products to kids so why not do the same for the gun manufacturer that makes the JR-15 and markets it to kids (see https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/01/29/jr-15-rifle-ar-15-kids/)

Keith, for some portions of our population knives are regulated. People on parole/probation have restrictions on what they are allowed to carry.

As I said, we (i.e. the government) regulate all kinds of things and processes that are dangerous to the public. For instance, fossil fuels - emissions from coal-fired power plants. And just because we regulate one kind of harm does not mean we regulate all kinds of things that can do harm. We don't regulate hot dogs because kids sometimes choke on them - we provide warnings. The regulations should be commensurate with the harm.

Ron: how about cigarettes or oxycontin?